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Manheim Twp. looks up to preserve farmland
Considers increasing building height limit
Intelligencer Journal
Published: Aug 26, 2008
20:03 EST
Lancaster
By LARRY ALEXANDER, Staff

Correction — A Manheim Township resident who spoke against an ordinance approved by township commissioners on Monday allowing apartment buildings up to 50 feet in height was misidentified in the story below, posted on LancasterOnline Tuesday. The resident's name was Phil Rule.

•••

Hoping to spur farmland preservation, Manheim Township's board of commissioners think bigger may be better.

The commissioners on Monday approved an ordinance allowing developers to erect apartment buildings of up to 50 feet in height by purchasing transfer development rights.

Presently, apartment buildings may be up to 30 feet high.

The purchase of TDRs saves farmland in the township's agricultural district, while allowing higher density housing in residential and some business districts.

Currently, if zoning allows four houses per acre of land, a developer can build more houses on that acre by buying TDRs from farmers, one TDR per housing unit.

The new ordinance allows developers to build up rather than out.

The question split the board, which voted 3 to 2 in favor. Commissioners Michael Flanagan, Larry Downing and Carol Simpson voted in favor, with Nancy Keebler and Rick Casselbury voting no.

Casselbury said the TDR program needs "serious revamping." When the program was begun in 1991, about 1,300 TDRs were created. Since then only 144 have sold, and most of them were purchased by the township.

"The program has not been effective," he said. "It has not worked."

Allowing taller buildings, which could be erected within 75 feet of single-story residential homes, Casselbury said, is "unacceptable."

Farmers must be compensated for giving up the development rights to their properties, he said, but this idea was not the answer.

Keebler agreed.

Only 10 percent of the TDRs have sold in 17 years, she said, and the program has been administered in a "willy-nilly" fashion.

The ordinance allows for up to 25 percent of the buildings in a cluster development to be 50 feet high. The township, she said, is being "insensitive" to the farmers.

Downing said the ordinance is a way to manage growth, which is one of the board's prime responsibilities. He called talking about 50-foot buildings "popping up everywhere" a "scare tactic."

A number of residents spoke against the ordinance.

Farmer Nelson Rohrer, who was a commissioner when the TDR program was begun, said the problem is that the township "never made it a priority."

He said the board should "treat the farmer fairly."

Bill Ruhl said that in a recent township survey an overwhelming majority of residents put preserving farmland as their top concern.

It was suggested that the township purchase all the remaining TDRs and retire them. TDRs sell for about $15,000, and Downing said it would cost about $15 million.

"The survey showed that the taxpayers are willing to spend tax money to preserve farmland" Keebler said.

Also Monday, the commissioners were presented with a traffic impact study for a proposed shopping center at Granite Run.

The 300,000-square-foot Granite Town Center would be between Granite Run Drive and Route 283. The center would incorporate about 72,000 square feet of existing buildings.

The 40-acre site also would include 200,000 square feet of new construction, mostly small stores, restaurants and boutiques — rather than large chain stores — flanking a broad main street with trees and sidewalks. New construction would cost about $30 million.

The traffic study looked at 15 intersections along Fruitville and Manheim pikes and Route 283.

One issue of concern was the proposed widening of Fruitville Pike between Granite Run Drive and Delp Road. A right-turn lane northbound onto Delp would be built along the entire length. To add that, homeowners along one or both sides of Fruitville Pike could find the highway between five and 10 feet closer to their front doors.

Keebler voiced concern about residents losing part of their front yards, but traffic engineer Jodi Evans said the right of way belongs to the state.

"It's not really their front yards," Evans said.

"In their minds it is," Keebler said.

Homeowners would be compensated for their loss, attorney Charles M. Suhr, said.

The discussion on the traffic study will continue on Sept. 8 at 5 p.m. at the township office.

E-mail: lalexander@lnpnews.com


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QUOTE (The Logical One @ Aug 26 2008, 10:32 AM)
Also - what survey is Keebler talking about? Tax payers want to spend 15 million dollars to buy farmland? These people cannot even build a library, now they want to buy 15 million dollars of farmland?


There was a survery a while ago. I forget the questions and how they were worded, but some of them pertained to growth and I think one of them was about spending twp money to preserve farmland. And as far as the library goes, it's not that the twp can't afford it, it's that half the people in the twp voted against it. IIRC, the options given all included a library, except for the do nothing option. I think the vote was pretty well split between "do nothing" and the other options, so of course that means half the residents voted for a library when they may have been voting for an indoor pool but since the library was tacked onto that option, well it was a vote for the library. It was a poor survey, imo. (This was a separate survery before the "how's the twp running" survey.)
twinmom
QUOTE (Livin-in-Lancaster @ Aug 26 2008, 10:29 AM)
I'm guessing the folks in Manheim Township are excited about the prospects of living near 50 foot high buildings. Many of them probably moved here for just that reason. If 50 feet is good, wouldn't 100 feet save twice as much farm land? Think of the view!
Yes. If 50' is good, then 100' is better, and 150' will save a whole lot of farmland. Thank you Commissioners Keebler and Casselbury for standing up against the three MT Commissioners who are OBVIOUSLY more concerned with helping their developer buddies (many of who already have packed the township's backrooms) maximize their profits per acre.

Why is it that any MT development approval vote is ALWAYS split 3 / 2 in favor of the developers? (just follow the money)

At least Commissioner President Larry Downing did not need to cast his MT history making tie-beaking vote telephonically from his hospital bed on this latest pro-developer vote. Breaking the tie on Dale High's pro-shopping center warranted extra "special" arrangements to screw his residents and help his buddy.
ReaganRepublican
QUOTE (ReaganRepublican @ Aug 26 2008, 06:28 PM)
Yes. If 50' is good, then 100' is better, and 150' will save a whole lot of farmland. Thank you Commissioners Keebler and Casselbury for standing up against the three MT Commissioners who are OBVIOUSLY more concerned with helping their developer buddies (many of who already have packed the township's backrooms) maximize their profits per acre.

Why is it that any MT development approval vote is ALWAYS split 3 / 2 in favor of the developers? (just follow the money)

At least Commissioner President Larry Downing did not need to cast his MT history making tie-beaking vote telephonically from his hospital bed on this latest pro-developer vote. Breaking the tie on Dale High's pro-shopping center warranted extra "special" arrangements to screw his residents and help his buddy.

Maybe you should forge another false statement from the MT Commissioners saying they were wrong and sorry and post it on TB so they can lock this thread too.
Dragon
QUOTE (Dragon @ Aug 26 2008, 06:58 PM)
Maybe you should forge another false statement from the MT Commissioners saying they were wrong and sorry and post it on TB so they can lock this thread too.
You mean this locked thread?

I never claimed the commissioner's alleged statement was factual - quite the contrary. There was a clear and obvious disclaimer that was soon announced (by me) as bogus immediately after the township offices opened for business. The entire post quickly and magically disappeared after what we can only presume was extreme pressure by the MT police department to pull it, and the thread was summarily locked.

The level of "sensitivity" (and your personal animosity) about the police response that tragic night only reinforces citizens' suspicions that the police department has something to hide.

Kreider is already convicted for 3 life sentences. The only reason for the MTPD to continue to hide their timeline (including the time-stamped communication and GPS records) is that there is information being withheld that likely proves Lisa Haines got a raw deal.

I suggest that rather than continuing your attacks upon the messenger, your time would be better spent shredding documents and destroying hard drives (if you haven't already).
ReaganRepublican
QUOTE (ReaganRepublican @ Aug 26 2008, 09:30 PM)
You mean this locked thread?

I never claimed the commissioner's alleged statement was factual - quite the contrary. There was a clear and obvious disclaimer that was soon announced (by me) as bogus immediately after the township offices opened for business. The entire post quickly and magically disappeared after what we can only presume was extreme pressure by the MT police department to pull it, and the thread was summarily locked.

The level of "sensitivity" (and your personal animosity) about the police response that tragic night only reinforces citizens' suspicions that the police department has something to hide.

Kreider is already convicted for 3 life sentences. The only reason for the MTPD to continue to hide their timeline (including the time-stamped communication and GPS records) is that there is information being withheld that likely proves Lisa Haines got a raw deal.

I suggest that rather than continuing your attacks upon the messenger, your time would be better spent shredding documents and destroying hard drives (if you haven't already).

You posted the statement and SIGNED IT "Manheim Township Commissioners", what kind of sicko does that?
Obviously the PD has nothing to hide because they invited you to talk to them but you are too much of a COWARD to take them up on it. Don't give me any excuses either because Eric C talked to them and he was satisfied. You just continue to try to wreck the reputation of what I consider to be a pro police dept (Of which I am not a part of but I don't mind if you think I am). I am perfectly happy living in this community and I feel if I need to call they will be there. I support everyone that wears a uniform and I detest those like you that try to tarnish a good rep by spreading filth when you yourself will not talk to the PD. It proves you have a grudge to seek and that they KNOW YOU for some reason. If you think they are hiding their timeline then call them like they asked you to do and ask them about it.....but no....you won't do that.
I knew Lisa Haines, both my children were taught at the Lancaster Brethren pre-school by her and I would be the first to stand up and argue if she got raw deal from the cops. The one she got a raw deal from is Kreider. The one who stabbed her and returned to finish her off as the papers put it. The problem as so many have pointed out to you was the comunication to the police as to what happened that night but you would rather try to get revenge against those that have arrested you. Like I said, put up or shut up, call the PD and get what you are looking for. I will keep my hard drive because it just proves that you are a person who holds a huge grudge.
Dragon
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