Hey! The "faux stillettos for babies" also made this article.

To talk about the sexualization of women in America in a way that suggests it's gotten out of control is a joke, as online searches will bring up just as many sites from the rest of the world as from the US, depending on the search engine and search criteria you use. Search in Germany, and guess what? Search in the US or elsewhere, and guess what? Walk down the street of the red-light district in Amsterdam, and, well, GUESS WHAT? Plenty of sexualization of women in most any country, online or down the street, since THE BEGINNING OF MAN.

So, let's use western Europe to make a point. Most of western Europe, and for a good long time now, has 'enjoyed' much more easy access to porn than America has ever seen. Just check out the magazine racks at the groceries there. The porn mags are displayed along side every other type of magazine, at children's eye height no less, with nothing covering the explicit photos on the covers, and let me tell ya folks, they redefine explicit photos on covers over there. In the small town in the Bavarian region of Germany where a company for which I once worked is located, there is a well-known club with music that is really more of a 'brothel' (I forget the German word), right off the main drag, and every fella with whom I worked knew of it, as did the women, and every fella admitted knowing of it, but denied every being there, humurously - as if to clearly say "Yeah, I've been there, but there's no need to make a big deal of it", and so they don't, and neither did I. Did I mention that all but one of those fellas is married? And not one person in town ever complained about it in my presence - not women, not men, not even older women and men. It's just there - it's a part of life. Driving by the 'club' one evening my first trip over there to work, with one of the women on staff who was taking me out with her friends for the evening, she humorously commented that on Thursday evenings, if I'm looking for the boss, well, I "can find him there or wait until Friday am to talk to him". My mouth didn't drop. She also mentioned that "the music there is VERY loud", and doesn't know how anyone can actually stand it. LOL You following this? I thanked her for both pieces of information. She smiled and asked what kind of food I'd like for dinner before we all went out on the town in Augsburg for the evening. Admittedly, I was "now in the mood for something raw", I said, "but something nice and spicey will do." We all laughed.

The topic of sex and other things so taboo in this country, are so much a normal part of life in western Europe, discussed with and not hidden from their children from an early age. It's not treated as something taboo, and thus, doens't become a "can't have it, gotta know why" kind of thing for much of their youth, same as with drinking. For instance, it is common to a point of norm to grow up there enjoying an appropriate portion of healthy wine with their evening meals from a very young age. Kids, like adults, develop a taste for the smoother, sweeter wines, and their tastes sometimes evolve as they grow. And, they can explain it to you. I grew up like that. I'm thankful I did.

With that, sex, (including porn), drinking, etc., all being treated as normal healthy parts of life, has resulted in what in most of Western Europe???? Very low divorce rates. Very low teen pregnancy. Very low spread of STD's among teens and young adults. Very low alcohol abuse among teens and young adults.........in comparison to the US.

I look forward to the day when so many American's on their radical right/reich high horses will come down just long enough to take in what is right in front of them - the facts - and cease trying to ignore, deny and change basic human nature. It will be refreshing to see these people embrace human nature, teach their kids that to indulge in basic human nature isn't sinful or shameful, but something that needs to be approached on an age/maturity, relationship maturity specific level, within moderation, and at all times, with personal safety, health and well-being and respect for the same with their partners, first in their minds.

Yeah, I know. Fat chance.

[quote name='AugustChillLancaster' date='Sep 14 2008, 01:35 PM' post='437460']
To talk about the sexualization of women in America in a way that suggests it's gotten out of control is a joke, as online searches will bring up just as many sites from the rest of the world as from the US, depending on the search engine and search criteria you use. Search in Germany, and guess what? Search in the US or elsewhere, and guess what? Walk down the street of the red-light district in Amsterdam, and, well, GUESS WHAT? Plenty of sexualization of women in most any country, online or down the street, since THE BEGINNING OF MAN.

Am back again after a long time off Talkback....so excuse any mistakes I may make.
While agreeing with you that sex is handled more naturally and at a younger age,one must not generalize.For example,it is easier to go view violence,etc.in the US than in many parts of Europe.The same did apply to films with sex.I will admit I seldom go to films in any country but remember signs in German saying that they were only allowed if a certain age.
I think more important is that sex education is accepted in most of Europe.
BTW...it is true that we lead in teenage pregnancies,and definitely are high up the ladder in divorce(think Russia leads there).

Where most of Europe is at a similar level as the US is in lower pay for women.Sad but true.On the other hand,women have been heads of gvernment in several countries here and in some even have a majority in their legislative branches.

There are many misconceptions of Europe and European societies held by Americans and sadly I must admit I see little interest in learning abt.the reality .It reminds me(and I think I said this before here)of when I taught for the Dept.of Defense(both on a base in Germany and later at the US Embassy):Before summer vacation came and above all...before a class graduated,a sociologist or psychologist came into classes where kids weregraduating and sometimes where a unit due to return had a lot of their children...to "prepare"them.I remember a few things which stuck in my mind.
They were told ,when asked in the US,how it was in X..just answer quickly(as "it was nice" or "ok",etc.)...They were told NOT to say too much as most Americans ask ,just to be sociable but few are really interested AND if they spoke too favorable,they might be considered snobs or even told "if you think it is so good,go back".
Hard but true...as I know from my own experience.I went to grad school in Bonn on the GI Bill in 1969 and taught for the German Govt.for 14years.When I returned,I was once asked by a recent college graduate abt.life there and I mentioned also the benefits(college depends on ability to learn and willingness to learn and not money as it is even now basically guaranteed to any who graduate with the proper grades or pass the entrance tests with good grades).Naturally,medical coverage was also a plus.Then he asked me why I don't go back(which I did for various reasons after 2 years).
It was after returning that I taught American kids so could verify what they were told.But when one thinks many of these kids had parents in the army and often were in the Junior ROTC and 2 I had later died ,one wonders why.For Americans far away who might question their being real Americans because they saw we could learn from others in the world.

Doesn't the sexualization (as commonly used, I beg to differ) of men and women start with birth control? i.e. It's about far more than sex if marriage, babies, parenting and grandparenting remains a part of it.
BTW, along with the stats you cite, is the percentage of people that are getting married up or down in Europe and is it true the government of Germany pays couples who have children for so doing? Is it true that parts of Europe are so outbred by people in the Muslam faith that Shariah law may be voted in democratically in some countries in about two generations?
Dumb backwards Americans. Europeans are so much more enlightened and sophisticated. If only we could be more like them. And I love sex but hope we generally go for the WHOLE package which really goes to part of the problem of porn.

[quote name='Nativeson' date='Sep 14 2008, 06:44 PM' post='437515']
Doesn't the sexualization (as commonly used, I beg to differ) of men and women start with birth control? i.e. It's about far more than sex if marriage, babies, parenting and grandparenting remains a part of it.
BTW, along with the stats you cite, is the percentage of people that are getting married up or down in Europe and is it true the government of Germany pays couples who have children for so doing? Is it true that parts of Europe are so outbred by people in the Muslam faith that Shariah law may be voted in democratically in some countries in about two generations?
The laws and statistics differ in the countries but it is true that fewer children are being born.Contraception is part of it but late marriages is also a reason.The latter is more evident in the southern countries where most remain in their families until they can afford to have their own home or a large down payment.
It is also true that in some countries the Moslems are a large minority.That is not the case yet in Spain but certainly worrying the French and Germans more.I cannot imagine these countries allowing the Shariah.In fact,there are Moslems in the German govt.but they are not radical.One must also think that the immigrants are not only Moslems but very many from Eastern Europe and where we now live,China.In fact,more Chinese than Moroccans are now in our city...and that within 10-15years.The Moroccans have been here for generations as Morocco had been occupied by the French,Spanish ansd at times Germans and British as well.
I think when the writers refer to sophistication a few other points should be considered....what effects all the early (especially)teenage pregnancies have on the society .Generations ago there were grandmothers who could help guide the youth while the parents worked to save for a house.Now we find many grandmothers needing to work to survive themselves....leaving the young couples(or single mothers)out on their own.
Youth growing up alone is vulnerable and when the state also is either not wished or refuses to help,the troubles are already programmed.
BTW...Yes,there is (and it varies in countries)generally a monthly amt.for each child until it is finished with its education.This has been the case as long as I can remember in Germany and in fact,if I ,as an American ,had had children while residing and working there,would have been eligible.It is not a recent innovation to get the families to have children.
If we want to argue financial plus and minus factors,I would be willing to do so on another thread later.Till then must close.