LancasterOnline.com:News:Grocer gets rezoning in Mount Joy

QUOTE (LancNewbie @ Jul 9 2009, 09:28 AM)

I'm not painting it with any brush, i've known a lot of people that have graduated from DSD and they will be the first ones to tell you that the school is a mess. I'm not saying anything i've not heard out of the mouth of a DSD graduate. As far as the tax money goes, only $60,000 more? Thats hardly worth it in my mind, seeing how its going to effect the town. For as many houses as that area has been throwing up, that would only be 20-30 new houses, depending on the average tax bill. There have been developments going up with 3-4 times that many houses.

It was years of mis-management by the school, school board and area residents that caused those problems. But then again, its never anyones fault right?? No one ever had the guts to make the capital improvements needed, because lord forbid you raise taxes a little. Nope just keep using everything till the wheels fall off and then your really hurting for money. ANd then you have to raise taxes a lot.

Look at the other local area schools, they had 10-20 year plans to gradually improve the schools a little at a time. PM and Hempfield are a really good example of that, even Solanco. In fact PM was one of the two schools in the county to not have to raise taxes this year. They must be doing something right.

Newbie are you drinking??? 25 new house at 3,000 in property tax for easy math = $75,000

if 1/4 of those have kids now or have them in the future that is 6 houses with kids
average 2 kids per house that is 12 kids @ 9k per year to educate equals $108,000 per year in taxes. So your in the hole $33,000 your logical escapes me.

Giant = $60,000 and 0 kids.

We have enough homes in this area many are empty now. Wake up.

QUOTE (LancNewbie @ Jul 8 2009, 04:32 PM)

Wow what a dumb post. Pulled yourself away from making excuses for pot smokers huh? Next time put the joint down before you start to post. Let me guess, you graduated from Donegal right? Man that school district sure produces some winners. Then they sit and wonder why they have so many problems with the school. Someone needs milk at Midnight? Theres a Giant in Etown thats open around the clock. Or a Turkey Hill right there on the corner. Don't forget the Sheetz down the road too.
Whats your excuse for putting a store 7 miles away from another one? Heres a little news flash for you, your not going to create more consumer spending if the people around the store don't have the money to spend. Thats a pretty basic concept but i guess you missed those days of class??
So putting a Giant at every corner is making the economy better?? You shoulda paid more attention in school kid. Clearly that Donegal education is failing you already.

Lancnewbie I think your education is lacking critical thinking

QUOTE (CombatThePanda @ Jul 9 2009, 12:59 PM)

Commercial real estate is doing much better then residential and I think in this area's case, they DO need all the help they can get, so thats why they pushed for commercial real estate rather then destroying another farm field to build empty houses, which crowd up the area just as much if not more then your, "shoehorning another box store into an already over-crowded area." claim. Keep in mind chief that they're only modifying a currently developed plot of land that has been developed for awhile now, to "shoe horn" this giant in there. They aren't over crowding this area by any means.

You honestly think commercial real estate is doing much better? Get on the Googles and search commercial real estate news. Many think commercial real estate has yet to bottom out. Many commercial loans are in the process of coming up for renewals... the bubble has yet to burst. Take an inventory of available space in the county... I think you'd be surprised at how much space is out there, especially in respect to the retails aspect. Look at the Giant remodel along Columbia Ave at Stonemill -- I don't frequent that area much, but didn't they build additional storefronts along the I think it'd be East side of the parcel? If so, anyone know how many of them are still available? Red Rose has two huges openings, the strip across from Park City where Tweeter was is basically 100% vacant now... tons of space available in the city... Ganite Run Drive has For Lease sign after For Lease sign... this is because most tenants can't afford to operate anymore.

It's a viscious cycle we have to break - at least for awhile. Stop buliding! There are plenty of available houses out there.... there's plenty of available commercial space out there. If your company can afford to grow -- FANTASTIC! Way to run a smart business! Bank that money for a couple years -- give back to your employees, the community -- just make a freaking donation to your school district. Help get the economy back on track. Building a new grocery store is not going to solve the problems of DSD or Mount Joy Boro or Lancaster County. Sure it'll give them tax money for 6.6 students and jobs to a couple hundred... but it's really not going to generate "new income" in the area. Most of the shopper that shop there will just spend less somewhere else. Which in turn could result in the loss of jobs and the loss of a tax base if someone else has to close. Therefore negating the "postive" everyone thought it would generate.

I'm sorry I'm babbling... I just think with the way things are right now everyone should just stop and think. If you have a job right now -- some would say you are darn lucky! If you've gotten a raise lately... be very thankful. Every day someone is taking a pay-cut or loosing their job therefore becoming another strain on the economy.

And in responce to your modifing claim -- I don't believe that is true. Giant is buliding on a large piece of undeveloped land owned by the Janus School. Yes they are going to knock down a couple thousand sqare feet at the Mount Joy Center... but the "traffic" that ceneter generates is nothing compared to what Giant will bring in. So in a way you could consider it overcrowding.

QUOTE (callabelle @ Jul 10 2009, 09:09 AM)

You honestly think commercial real estate is doing much better? Get on the Googles and search commercial real estate news. Many think commercial real estate has yet to bottom out. Many commercial loans are in the process of coming up for renewals... the bubble has yet to burst. Take an inventory of available space in the county... I think you'd be surprised at how much space is out there, especially in respect to the retails aspect. Look at the Giant remodel along Columbia Ave at Stonemill -- I don't frequent that area much, but didn't they build additional storefronts along the I think it'd be East side of the parcel? If so, anyone know how many of them are still available? Red Rose has two huges openings, the strip across from Park City where Tweeter was is basically 100% vacant now... tons of space available in the city... Ganite Run Drive has For Lease sign after For Lease sign... this is because most tenants can't afford to operate anymore.

It's a viscious cycle we have to break - at least for awhile. Stop buliding! There are plenty of available houses out there.... there's plenty of available commercial space out there. If your company can afford to grow -- FANTASTIC! Way to run a smart business! Bank that money for a couple years -- give back to your employees, the community -- just make a freaking donation to your school district. Help get the economy back on track. Building a new grocery store is not going to solve the problems of DSD or Mount Joy Boro or Lancaster County. Sure it'll give them tax money for 6.6 students and jobs to a couple hundred... but it's really not going to generate "new income" in the area. Most of the shopper that shop there will just spend less somewhere else. Which in turn could result in the loss of jobs and the loss of a tax base if someone else has to close. Therefore negating the "postive" everyone thought it would generate.

I'm sorry I'm babbling... I just think with the way things are right now everyone should just stop and think. If you have a job right now -- some would say you are darn lucky! If you've gotten a raise lately... be very thankful. Every day someone is taking a pay-cut or loosing their job therefore becoming another strain on the economy.

And in responce to your modifing claim -- I don't believe that is true. Giant is buliding on a large piece of undeveloped land owned by the Janus School. Yes they are going to knock down a couple thousand sqare feet at the Mount Joy Center... but the "traffic" that ceneter generates is nothing compared to what Giant will bring in. So in a way you could consider it overcrowding.

Buhh you're right. However commercial real estate has a lot of positives. Look at the Queensgate center in York? Building a new movie theater, remodeling, its going to be great. The shops at bloomfield is fully leased except for a couple thousand sf maybe, they're doing well it seems, but I do agree people do need to just stop building and let what we already have absorb and take off before we build more, you made some good points, made me think a little. I just meant I feel commercial is doing a lot better then residential, even though there are a lot more vacancies, but who isn't having a rough time in this current economic state? I think that building a Giant rather than building a new apartment complex, or a new housing development where only people who can afford to pay $1,600 a month can live. I just think overall that a Giant would be more beneficial, because in the end, that land will developed, and the Janus school probably is excited as hell to have that cash, so I don't know. You raised a lot of good points though.

QUOTE (CombatThePanda @ Jul 10 2009, 10:58 AM)

Buhh you're right. However commercial real estate has a lot of positives. Look at the Queensgate center in York? Building a new movie theater, remodeling, its going to be great. The shops at bloomfield is fully leased except for a couple thousand sf maybe, they're doing well it seems, but I do agree people do need to just stop building and let what we already have absorb and take off before we build more, you made some good points, made me think a little. I just meant I feel commercial is doing a lot better then residential, even though there are a lot more vacancies, but who isn't having a rough time in this current economic state? I think that building a Giant rather than building a new apartment complex, or a new housing development where only people who can afford to pay $1,600 a month can live. I just think overall that a Giant would be more beneficial, because in the end, that land will developed, and the Janus school probably is excited as hell to have that cash, so I don't know. You raised a lot of good points though.

I don't pay a lot of attention to real estate in York as I'm hardly ever over there -- although they do have a few places in York County we don't have... never did quite understand that. York has always seems to have a stronger retail sector for some reason. I guess the population density is better... better demographics. I do agree that you're probably right that a Giant is better than apartments -- but we really don't need either so that's my theory and I'm sticking to it! :-) I mean clearly that area isn't that strong for retail - look what actually went into that new strip center, how long it took to place the tenants and the fact that they never started the second phase should tell you something. It took years for Sonic to take the plunge into Mount Joy... and that kind of establishment, IMO, was a much needed one for the area. Regardless -- I don't live in the Boro so in the long run it probably doesn't affect me that much to really care. I don't have to travel that road often and I will probably never shop there as I'm a strong believer in supporting the local companies. I'm a Darrenkamps/John Herrs/SKH shopper and eat out a large majority of the time at the independents in the area-love Tobias, Wasabi and El Serrano. I feel local is how you keep the money in the community the best. Even my dog food hardly comes from PetSmart but it comes from TFPTPP.... I can truely say most of the money I spend is spent locally and I'm proud of that!